Episode 22: Never Let Them See You Sweat: A Deep Dive into Stress with Dr. Leigh Vinocur

Dr. Leigh Vinocur

Ali Kessler: [: 00:00:00

Dr. Leigh began her groundbreaking medical career as one of the first female urology residents and has since served in leadership roles, including Chief Medical Director, overseeing care for over 150,000 patients annually. Also a pioneer in medical cannabis science and therapeutics.

s and more. In her new book, [: 00:01:00

So without further ado, welcome Dr. Leigh.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Thank you for having me, Ali. I really appreciate it.

even thought of people could [: 00:02:00

Yeah, I'm excited to dive into, to all things stress related and, we all have it in some form or another. It's just, how we deal with it effectively. If you don't mind, if you can just give our listeners a brief, rundown about your career, who you are, and how this became such a hot topic.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: You gave them quite the rundown. Thank you very much and thank you for everything that you do for people related to stress and things like that. You do a really great job. But yeah. I did start out in urology. I was one of the first women that was accepted in the residency. I ended up leaving towards the end of my fourth year.

Everyone's you have one more year. What are you doing? In the book I also talk about you have to be true to yourself. And there were different circumstances that were going on in my life and I just felt like emergency medicine was I. Something that might've been better for me. And it was very broad based.

ut taking that change. And I [: 00:03:00

You can fail at things, you just. Don't have to be afraid and you have to have some confidence in yourself. And I'm hoping the book will give women some confidence.

Ali Kessler: I'm sure it will, and I'm sure your work and being in the ER has taught you some, key wisdom, on how to deal with stress and it's very high stress related jobs.

So what have you taken from the medical industry, working in the ER, in how to deal with stress effectively in your everyday life?

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: That's where I came up with this idea. Never let 'em see you sweat because you know the last thing you wanna come in with parable emergency and the emergency physician is freaking out.

the truth is, stress is not [: 00:04:00

You get that pump of adrenaline and it can help you when it's focused. It's just when it's. Incredibly long and it's doesn't end and it's, you feel like there's nothing you can do. It's that sustained stress in short bursts. It can help us, but the sustained chronic stress can cause all kinds of medical problems.

Like you said, that people don't realize it's just not psychological. It's physiological.

on my skin that took a year [: 00:05:00

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: It does, it affects everything.

Stress, what happens with stress, the hypothalamus, the pituitary, and the adrenal access. And we have an area in our brain called the amygdala, which can detect fear and threats and heightened issues. So through that access, you get sympathetic discharge, which means it, we have a sympathetic nervous system parasympathetic.

And without getting too technical, the sympathetic is. Fight or flight, right? And what happens is it causes physiological things. Your eyes dilate so you get more peripheral vision. If you had to run from a predator, all the blood gets diverted from your GI to your muscles. You start breathing faster, it brings more oxygen in everything to run and release.

y times have you know you're [: 00:06:00

Have a horrible cold or infection because it affects your immune system. And when the hormones go away, that's when we see that it can increase your risk of cancer, heart disease, all of these things sustain stress can do. And that's the whole

Ali Kessler: fight or flight mode that your body. Puts itself in to protect you, right?

Is that like, where does that come from? Is it to protect you?

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Yeah. It's an evolutionary advance to protect you, but as I said, in prehistoric times, you ran away from something. When the threat was gone, it went away. Nowadays, you're an accountant sitting in an office having that. Sustained level of adrenaline and cortisol, it causes everything.

need to manage today, right? [: 00:07:00

Ali Kessler: evolution has changed. How does one take that same fight or flight mode and adapt it in today's world where everything is stress related, I feel like everyone is bogged down with some sort of stress.

Obviously some are, more stressful than others, but it's also the way a person deals with it, right? Someone can say, oh my God, I'm so stressed out. I have to. There's so much traffic and I have to make a nail appointment and da, and that for her, she's stressed. And then there's someone else who is working in the ER and has all these patients coming in.

So no matter what your issue is, how does one take that stress and channel it into maybe a. Focusing and not feeling that anxiety.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: It is, as you said, it's perceived, so if you perceive it as stressful, it's stressful. And a little while back you asked what did I learn from the er?

sickest and needs to be seen [: 00:08:00

Today in America, unfortunately, we see a lot of mass casualties. So you know, if you're involved in a mass casualty as some many ER doctors are, if you're unfortunate enough to have it happen near your. ER and stuff, or go in the field. There are like you triage the patients, right? And they do that in war too.

So there are some patients that are so badly injured, no matter what you do, it's not gonna help them. And then there are some patients that are barely injured and they don't really, if you did nothing, they'd be fine. It's the ones in the middle where you can. Perform an intervention and then you can save your life.

. Things in your job, things [: 00:09:00

Some things you have to let go. And then there are some things that are minor and you have to tell yourself, is this gonna really make a difference in my life? And then it's the things in the middle that you have control of that you know will make a difference in your life if you address 'em.

And that's how IP tell people to address stress. And then there's a whole host, I give them tips to harness it and bring themselves back. It is. Dear friend who runs the psychology department here at a university had said to me, if you think so, it shall be. And it is true that if you really think something, you have to change your mindset.

But the brain is amazing, it's adaptable and you can do it. And there are some techniques you can learn to do it

an only control what you can [: 00:10:00

And I think that, has a lot to do with it as well because I can't control the traffic that's in front of me. But I can control is how, I handle it while I'm in driving.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: And we talk about, forgiveness for example, which is a very difficult thing, but holding in resentment and there's study after study that people, think about if you feel like you've been wronged, you get angry, you start breathing heavy, all those things are happening.

It can cause arrhythmias, it can cause a heart attack. We have all these studies. So the point is. When you hold in that resentment for someone, it doesn't actually hurt them. It hurts you more than it hurts them. I do think, there are some things that just seem not forgivable, and I'm not saying you have to forgive that person, but you have to let yourself let it go for you, not for that person, but those are,

sler: It takes a lot to hold [: 00:11:00

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: It does off of you, right? Even people that deserve that burden, whether they're in prison or wherever, whatever happened, but it's for you. You have to do it for you.

Ali Kessler: Now, do you think, people are like, especially women, feel shame about being stressed.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: I think I do.

And I remember when I was writing the book, never let Them See You Sweat. Like I didn't wanna add this to their burden, but the point is, it's the subtitle How Science Can Help You Harness Stress for Success. And you shouldn't, you shouldn't feel shame. You feel how you feel. But now you need to move on and you need to figure out, okay, how can I get past this?

and everything else. So you [: 00:12:00

And like I said, even if it's like making a list sometimes people go to bed and they're, I tell them, look, write out a list of what you think. Don't let it run through your mind while you're trying to fall asLeighp. 'cause you're not gonna fall asLeighp. And then that adds me stress.

So get a piece of paper, write down a list. If you don't get everything done the next day, big deal. Put it on the list for the next day. Triage those things. What really needs to get done today? I'm hoping that this will give women a chance to give themselves a break. My mother did that for me and I.

and science and studies can [: 00:13:00

Ali Kessler: I'm in that same. But as well, because I feel like I take, my, my pain, my grief, my sorrow from Greyson and losing him to taking all that stress and putting it forward in a positive way, really, because it actually gives me purpose and I find that stress is.

Stressful, it's what I need almost to make it to the next day.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: And you're turning a tragedy into something positive for other people. Which is a blessing

Ali Kessler: now. And

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: in something like,

Ali Kessler: This or other tragic stories, how does one take something so horrifying, but deal with that stress.

or other things in your life [: 00:14:00

For example, they say it's true. That's why some of these idioms come about. Laughter is the best medicine. When people are really laughing and joking about something and it increases your oxygen as you start with a big belly laugh. You can see cortisol levels go down, adrenaline goes down, dopamine gets released in the brain, endorphins.

So it is true, seeing a comedy, laughing with friends, doing that even in the most dire circumstances. I was talking about my mom's funeral and a situation that happened there that ended up being funny. And that we were all laughing. And my mom, I know would've laughed too. It's always gotten me through a lot, and not taking myself seriously and being able to make fun of myself.

want women to know you. You [: 00:15:00

And I talk about some of my epic fails and all kinds of things that I did that were crazy. Would you like to share some for our listeners? I'm trying to think of one of the things, I give an example in the book when my husband divorced, and I'm not trying to make light of divorce.

But I'm trying to say turning situations around. I talk about when he just finally took all his stuff and moved outta the house and he was left so fast that a hanger was. Swinging in the breeze and I was watching him drive away and then I suddenly thought, oh my God. And I ran downstairs and got all my winter clothes up and I said, finally, I can have both seasons of clothes in the closet.

it around and feel sorry for [: 00:16:00

Because people talk about blue spaces and green spaces to reduce stress. Their study after study in Sweden about how many parks to put per capita. The Japanese talk about forest bathing. When you just go out in nature, you don't even have to hike or do anything strenuous, even though exercise is good for stress, just being there and they talk about blue spaces being near water.

reative is another thing you [: 00:17:00

People talk about art therapy and nowadays you don't have to be an artist, right? They have coloring books for adults. They have, I have one. They have Legos for adults, right? Where you're putting little pieces for beautiful and just taking the time and creating something and taking your mind off of it.

Cooking. There's studies that cooking and baking, especially where you're creating something, trying to make it look beautiful, can help reduce stress. 'cause you're in the moment there started painting rock, right? No, there's all kinds of things like that. Yeah. That you can do that can relieve your stress and help.

It started as

Ali Kessler: I paint rocks for to bring to Greyson Cemetery. Wow. And I just found it so calming and therapeutic and I just, yeah. Now I paint rocks. Who knew?

en it's too much and when to [: 00:18:00

As a doctor, I'm a big believer in you start at the least invasive. Surgery shouldn't be the first thing you go to. You. Start with medicines or whatever. So you starting at the least invasive interventions like talk therapy, cognitive behavioral, hair therapy, because our brain can learn and you can reframe things in your mind, and that's the important part too, of reducing stress. That's what triaging is. You're reframing. The stress in your mind so that you can handle it better. And then working all the way up to, there's electromagnetic therapy for depression where drugs don't work for people, and you step your way up.

Least invasive. Most invasive.

t are highly stress related. [: 00:19:00

Whenever you know they're in a heated argument with their co-parents about the sons something, and then they're in the car, what can they do in an instant to calm down.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: In an instant breathing, which then goes back to mindfulness too, and all these little. Apple watches have the breathing.

It really does and they call it, sometimes call it box breathing, where you inhale for four seconds, hold it for four seconds, then let it out through your mouth for four seconds, then take a break and repeating that cycle actually does switch over your brain from your. Sympathetic response of flight or fight to your parasympathetic, which we call rest and digest because when you're resting or your body's digesting food, it's all parasympathetic nervous system functioning.

t and closing your eyes and. [: 00:20:00

Many studies that looked at students that did it before tests, nursing students, they were able to perform better. So it really can help you with cognitive too.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. I, when I was in college, I went to the University of Florida. We, I took a class called I think it was called transcendental Meditation, and I got an a.

So it definitely, I remember just like you close your eyes and you picture yourself like floating on a raft or something and all, you throw all your troubles off the raft and you set sail. It was all these creative ways breathe. But it worked. It

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: definitely

Ali Kessler: it did.

sLeighp. I found a technique [: 00:21:00

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Yeah, no, absolutely it does.

It works. And it's a form of mindfulness and meditation, so those are also very helpful. And being in the present too, like you can have a, a situation happen that's scary, and then your mind says and then this is gonna happen and that's gonna happen and this gonna happen instead of just.

Saying or, I have so much to do and then I'm not gonna get this done and this done. Instead of saying, okay, I'm here right now. Okay, this is where I have to be. Let's just focus on this one thing and then I'll worry about that. Every thousand foot mile journey begins with the first step.

So it's keeping yourself in the present too, to say, I'm just dealing with this. Let's not think about the 20 other things that maybe it could impact right now.

y does science help in these [: 00:22:00

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Because what I do in the book, there's probably a thousand references if you care to delve into the clinical trials that really show these techniques can make a difference.

So I didn't want the book come across oh, this is just me saying this and this is what I do. I wanted to show women that look. This is what I'm saying. That's worked. I've done the research for you. These are the studies that show that it works and all of these things, like laughter, singing, humming.

It's hard to be anxious and mad when you're singing a song or humming. I had a colleague when I was on faculty at the University of Maryland School of Medicine who did a study and showed if you listen to music that you love, it could be. Something that someone else wouldn't, but something that you love.

to your heart, more flow. So [: 00:23:00

Ali Kessler: I guess it makes sense when you think about, you said your cortisol rises when you laugh and I guess that also applies to, sexual encounters and what happens. Yeah.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: No re relaxation. It's hard, men have probably have more performance anxiety than women, but women too, sex is all in our head. A lot of times. So you have to get stuff out of your head. But yeah, there are studies that show that it decreases cortisol increases oxytocin, the cuddle hormone increases dopamine release.

yourself a break to, I don't [: 00:24:00

I should be able to handle it. No, I. The whole point of this book too is that yeah, everybody's going through this and it's hard and you just have to, don't, give yourself some grace and some room. People make mistakes. Nobody's perfect and no, you're not never gonna be stress free.

We have inevitable stresses. All, when you're dead, you're stress free. But other than that, it's. Just part of life, but trying to manage it, but you're not perfect. Don't be upset if you can't manage it that every single time.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. I always say everyone fake it till they make it.

Nobody is perfect. We all just take things as they come. So I read that you talk about the idea of stress inoculation. Can you explain what that is?

ou're, these little stresses [: 00:25:00

Okay? Hopefully you didn't have an accident. Stop. You're about to ready to honk your horn. Give him the finger, do something. But if you check yourself and say, really, what does this really mean to me? This guy's an idiot. He's probably gonna get in an accident and hurt himself, hopefully not anyone else.

And letting those little things go as you start to not sweat the small stuff over time you realize that even. Some bigger and bigger things you can manage that way. So it's a kind of a form of a resilience and by triaging things and deciding this is not worth it. My mom always used to joke when I would be worried about something, she'd be like, Leigh, is this worth having a heart attack or getting cancer over?

ecause it is true stress. It [: 00:26:00

Yeah, no,

Ali Kessler: I used to be a, a server and a bartender in the, in a restaurant. And I would get so stressed out by the end of my shift and I'd be like, I'd have to check myself and be like. I'm serving food. Like I'm not a, an ER doctor. I'm not a surgeon. Like why am I so stressed out by waiting on people?

And so I'd have to do like a reality check and be like, okay, it's cool. I'm cool.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: But, and women tend to be people pleasers, right? That's what we do. So learning to advocate for yourself and learning that, sometimes you're not gonna be able to please everyone no matter what you do. You could have the do bent over backwards for a customer, and it might not make a difference.

So you have, [: 00:27:00

Ali Kessler: Now I have a question, like, how does, do children get stressed? How does that, how is it different with. Children.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Kids, there's just so many stresses with kids. Kids are very resilient, which is true, but they take their cues from their parents if they're living houses with parents.

There are obviously, there are such societal issues with kids and stress live. There are some that live in food deserts. There are some that you know live in. Single family homes that are, indigent and, it really depends. But, a lot of kids take cues from their parents too.

t with kids being picked up, [: 00:28:00

And look at kids in war torn regions, right? So those extremes, obviously they need help, but for minor stresses in your child going to school or whatever, it helps. To talk to them and they mimic what we mimic. So if you are getting stressed about things, they will be stressed. So you have to check yourself.

We'll do everything for our kids, right? So that's another thing you can tell yourself to check yourself. What are some tips we can give our kids

Ali Kessler: to help them deal with stress? Like we used to tell Grey, say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1,

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: and then regroup.

And take a deep breath and even when your kids get older, I have a son in graduate school now, and when he gets stressed about stuff, I find, because as a parent we want to fix everything and he would just get angrier with me.

. So now I have to say, even [: 00:29:00

You can't necessarily fix everything for them. Don't try and fix everything. Just listen. Give them a sounding board. And then if they want advice, helping them regroup their stress the same way. And I agree with little children, they get so mad. You ask them why are you mad? What are you afraid of?

What can we do? Okay, let's take, like you said, a break. Let's take a break. Let's close our eyes. Let's take a deep breath and then think about it. Okay. And try and let it go. So helping them with some of those things can often help too.

e alcohol or drugs or coping [: 00:30:00

What are some ways to get around that? So you don't do that? And is there any medication maybe that you do recommend, like Xanax?

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: So there are certain times where you absolutely maybe need some intervention for severe stress, severe anxiety. That's what I said. This book can give you tips, but there is a point, and when it's so severe, and what you need to look for.

-term thing, you probably do [: 00:31:00

There are for opioids, there are medicines now that even in the ER they can see. Start for people that really want to stop, but those people also have to want to stop too. It's like very hard to do an intervention, but it's a disease. We have to understand alcohol use and abuse and alcoholism is a medical disease, so is opioid dependence, and these are things that need treatment and there are medicines.

For that, but you need to be in a good treatment program for that. But trying not to turn to it initially all the time is something that's important.

Ali Kessler: And do people do that, just numb themselves from dealing with the stress?

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Yeah, they do. And it's hard, so turning to support systems, family, close friends, siblings, anyone that can support you for that.

give you Xanax for a while. [: 00:32:00

Antidepressants as opposed to there are some antidepressants and that also have anti-anxiety and that's probably better than Xanax. They're a little bit less addictive and they can help manage anxiety and numb a little bit of what, just blunting the pain and things like that.

Ali Kessler: Now, where does cannabis fit into

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: that?

So it's interesting 'cause and I talk about it in the book too. So we have this internal endocannabinoid system. Okay. That's the reason we respond to the plant cannabis. But our own body in times of stress releases our own internal endocannabinoids. Okay. All different things. For example, in seizures and stuff, when people have a.

ring in the brain. While our [: 00:33:00

And reasoning for maybe they have a dysfunction of their endocannabinoid system, but when you take plant cannabis, it does attach to those receptors in the brain and throughout the body, and it gives similar effects. THC. There's a whole bunch of cannabinoids, but the most common that we know are TH, C and CBD, and there have been studies that it can blunt anxiety and depression.

ever taken it can cause some [: 00:34:00

Ali Kessler: right

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: medical.

There's medical cannabis, but they have adult use legal cannabis. A lot of states, Maryland, Colorado, New York, Colorado, right? So you really don't have to see a doctor to do it. But my recommendation is to see someone who's familiar with it or talk to your own doctor when you first start. 'cause you should.

Start very low and slow and I had given patients actual recommendations of how to dose and what to do. And there's there's ratios like, maybe higher ratio of THC at night to help you sLeighp a little bit. And then c, b, D more in the daytime. So you should talk to an expert if you're medicating yourself for it, if you're not just.

Doing it for [: 00:35:00

Ali Kessler: right Ed,

So for someone like me, it could go either way. It's hit or miss. Sometimes I will. Totally chill out and feel good and relaxed.

And sometimes I'll get super paranoid and start thinking really dark things and with my grief and everything, what do you say? A good, ratio would be someone for me that maybe just wants to control anxiety or go to sLeighp.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Yeah I would say that probably something that is more CBD dominant for anxiety.

has a little bit of it, and [: 00:36:00

I've even had some patients that say they take it at night, C, B, D, and lower doses can be more awakening. If you take a higher dose in the evening, it can actually make you a little bit sLeighpy. Do you know for people. And I always say to patients they should have a range of stuff. I don't believe in smoking, but there is vaping that can give you immediate, even like for all day pain, all day chronic pain, you need to have something you can vape.

For breakthrough pain, but then you need something that lasts longer, like a gummy, which take can last much longer or tinctures under your tongue. But finding a knowledgeable doctor about it. And the other thing is making sure that you're getting something reputable. There are some very reputable CBD companies that are out there that give you what's called a certificate of analysis.

percentage is THC? Are there [: 00:37:00

Ali Kessler: Is that what we say, the strains are like indica and,

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: You know what sativa, it used to be in the old days, the strains were different, but now the strains don't mean as much.

So if you went to a real medical cannabis doctor, they would talk about THC dominant CBD dominant or a one-to-one ratio. There are prescription drugs in the us. There's the prescription of Epidiolex, which is an isolate of just CB, D. Nothing else in it except some artificial colors and flavors.

that use it for treatments, [: 00:38:00

That's why in the drug industry they switched to synthetic drugs. 'cause you could control exactly how much. This is a plant, it's not a factory. One condition could be a little different when the plant was growing and when they, process it, they don't get the exact same. So it's.

It's an interesting branch sort of medicine because it's very individualized. People have to tinker around themselves, but it helps to have a knowledgeable physician that can help you too.

Ali Kessler: And it's very taboo. Some people are just like, no, it's a drug. I can't take that. But, as we've all seen, alcohol is also a drug.

Yet it's legal and it, I feel cannabis pot, whatever, is probably a lot less diabolical

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: than alcohol. It definitely, if you look at the number of deaths from tobacco, look at the number of deaths from alcohol. There's no question that there's no comparison as far as like number of deaths from cannabis.

Really not

ell, and it serves a purpose [: 00:39:00

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: It can help with anxiety, depression, chronic pain. They're doing research with spasticity. Every cell virtually in our body does respond to cannabinoid, has cannabinoid receptors. Cannabinoid receptors and the endocannabinoid system is so ingrained in our evolution that animals as low as Sea squirts have cannabinoid receptors. Any animals that have a nervous system, they have these receptors because it helps modulate the nervous system. So every function in our body, it can put the brakes on things, it can calm you.

Our immune system, our nervous system, our cardiothoracic. So it's really a part, the endocannabinoid system is really a part of our physiology and that's why people respond to Very interesting.

Ali Kessler: How did you get into

faculty at the University of [: 00:40:00

And I had been practicing for probably 15, 20 years then maybe. And he just got his paper accepted for the level of endocannabinoids in stressed rats. And I was like, what word is that? Like I, I'd never heard that word before. I don't think I can say it. Endocannabinoid. Cannabinoid. I said we have internal canna like endorphins, which are the, he goes, yeah, I go.

Why are they not teaching that in medical school? And they still don't teach it that much now. And that was like, I don't know, 20 years ago. And not quite 20, but it, it was, I was just shocked. So I started reading everything I could and then Maryland had their first course, the School of Pharmacy on it, and I wanted to learn more and.

to do new things and try new [: 00:41:00

It's like learning that resilience and dealing with stuff. I talk about try something that you. Suck at, right? Who cares if you're not good at it right away? If it's something you're interested and you wanna do it right.

Ali Kessler: Now, how does one take their stressors and use it as something motivating or put it to good use?

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: In, like I said, in certain situations it can be a friend, not a foe. 'Cause that's what. Keeps you sharp, before you're gonna give a presentation. Like I even talk about, when you talk about, when you were asking before, the stress inoculation, like public speaking, people are afraid to do public speaking.

you're successful. It's like [: 00:42:00

All of those things build on your self-esteem so that the next time you're in a stressful situation, you feel like you can do it. So that's. Sort of part of it. Picking out a situation where, you know, a little bit of anxiety and stress is really gonna keep you on your toes. And then once you accomplish that, you feel better.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. And I was about to say, and when you're, when it's done, you're like, it's like a sigh of relief and you feel like a weight lifted off you, which is, like working out,

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: yeah. When I was doing, started in urology and had to do two years of general surgery, which I don't think urologists do anymore.

ne of the top in the country [: 00:43:00

And we would see the most atrocious trauma come in. And after you got these people to the OR and you actually helped fix 'em, I remember my senior resident in trauma was like, yeah, bring 'em in. Decapitated. I think I could get his head back on. You get that feeling. You've gone through the stress and the trauma.

The surgeons are too, trying to save this life. I know people watch a lot of shows like ER In the Pit used to be, and it is like that in a trauma code. Everyone comes together and does things. So anyway, but then you get this feeling like, Hey, I can do anything. Which of course, obviously if someone comes in, could take capitated, you cannot.

It's that, but I just remember him saying that one night when we were sitting around talking after a couple bad trauma codes.

very different working in a [: 00:44:00

Issues on tv?

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: I think, in the beginning, in er, and I do tell people that emergency medicine's a young person's sport, and you get to a certain age and. But and I've worked in the industry and done other things, you I always felt like you were taking care of one person at a time and you saw them in crisis and a lot of times it was too late.

It wasn't a chance to practice preventative medicine as an emergency physician. 'cause these were patients that stopped taking their insulin or didn't. Pay attention to their diet and did all these things and came in and diabetic ketoacidosis and all these things. And it could be a teachable moment at that time, but by able to, I used to say I can treat one patient at a time in the er, but when I write or talk about medicine, I can affect a community wide.

different. Yeah. And it's a [: 00:45:00

Advice you're getting versus, some influencer that just, this is their idea. And that was also why I wanted to have all those references in the book and say, Hey, this is the science that supports what I'm saying.

Ali Kessler: Were there any like behind the scenes moments from your TV work that I.

Viewers would find surprising.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: I had wanted to do it. I always used to joke that it was harder to get on television and I started local TV in Baltimore than it was to get into medical school. It was just crazy. And then the very first time I did it when I was, they put me in as a morning like report about it.

er and I was there trying to [: 00:46:00

And this is what I wanted to do and now I really suck at it. And the producer came up later. He is Leigh, what? What were you doing? Those were just flash points for you to. I go off and talk, just pay attention. You know this, nobody else knows this. You're the doctor. And it was from that point I said, yeah, I need to just trust myself and just talk to the anchor.

And then that was for her to ask questions. And that's, you need some positive stress relieving techniques.

Ali Kessler: To in order to read a prompter.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Yeah, no. And and you're trying to not look like a deer in the headlights, which I did that, first few times. And then I was like, yeah, forget it.

Don't even put the notes up there. We'll just talk.

Ali Kessler: That's great. So I guess where can one get your book?

th. Okay. Yeah, [: 00:47:00

Ali Kessler: Got it. Okay. So for our listeners, if you wanna just give any last tips for dealing with their stress or any words of wisdom.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Yeah, give yourself a break for sure. Everybody has stress. Nobody navigates it per perfectly. Don't get stressed about stress. Yeah, don't get stressed about your stress and try and find some techniques that work for you. Not everything works for everybody. And find some techniques that you like that work for you.

And say like breathing, one exercise, getting outside in nature, doing something creative, where you feel like you've accomplished something and had fun doing it.

he ocean or in the mountains [: 00:48:00

I feel confident that we as a, as a nation, as people can effectively harness our stress into positive things and positivity in general. So thank you so much for talking with us.

Thank you for having me, Ali. Absolutely. And we hope to have you back 'cause I'm sure we will have a lot of questions.

Dr. Leigh Vinocur: Absolutely.

Ali Kessler: All right, we'll talk soon.