Episode 36: Exploring Men's Mental Health to Build Healthy Families with Jason Lange

Ali Kessler: [: 00:00:00

When men are disconnected, struggling in silence or carrying unhealed trauma, it affects everyone around them, especially their children. Our guest today, Jason Lange, is a men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and certified" No More Mr. Nice Guy, coach", who helps men find purpose, emotional awareness, and a deeper connection.

Jason believes that every man deserves support and that men's groups can be life-changing spaces for growth, accountability. Transformation together. We'll talk about the loneliness epidemic, the cost of emotional suppression, and how men can rebuild strength through vulnerability, creating safer, more loving relationships and homes.

So [: 00:01:00

Jason Lange: Yeah, so. I've worked with hundreds of men at this point. I'm a father of two myself, and if there's one theme I often get from men is that they feel burnt out, burden overextended.

I have so much hanging on my plate. I'm trying to take care of my wife or spouse, take care of my kids, work and provide, and the culture we're raised in as men teaches us and keep that in all inside. So don't ask for help. Don't ask for support. Definitely don't show any kind of vulnerability or weakness.

o their field, right? Taking [: 00:02:00

To provide in that way, but often leaves the man then suffering inside, quite literally at a nervous system level, fatigued, stressed out, not getting enough sleep, sometimes reactive or depressed. And guess what? That shows up right in the family system, the state of our nervous system as a man and a father.

Is one of the greatest indicators of the wellness in the state of the family nervous system. So if we're not resourcing ourselves, our family's gonna feel the stress and pain of that. And it teaches a very simple lesson to our family, unfortunately, which is, don't take care of yourself. If I, as your father am not taking care of myself, I am actually transmitting a lesson to you.

And that has some [: 00:03:00

And that's great. But what I've seen is once men start getting connected in these healthy ways to other men, it relieves so much stress on the relationship, too. So yeah, absolutely. That'd be my first. First.

Ali Kessler: Yeah. Well, I mean, many of our listeners have experienced trauma or they're navigating co-parenting with partners who struggle emotionally.

What role would unhealed pain or emotional disconnection play in how men show up in a relationship or parenting?

and our partner, any of our [: 00:04:00

It's gonna show up in the relationship, no matter how fun. It's. Feels at first some of that stuff is gonna come up, and if you are not resourced as a man to deal with it, it will end your marriage. Oftentimes the, oh my gosh, this person I used to love so much, now we fight all the time, or I'm not attracted to them, or they remind me of my mother or my father.

self anymore. And sometimes, [: 00:05:00

We're rewarded and actually trained out of our bodies, in particular, in our hearts. So, you know, it's changing, it's getting better. And this happens to both genders, but I think particularly to men the way we parent is different, right? Little boy falls down, oh, you're fine, you're tough. It's okay. You can do it.

Just get right back to it. You don't need to cry about it. Be tough, right? Like, that starts at a really young age and then it keeps going up where, particularly our kind of mainstream schooling system, there's a lot of similarities, and there's some actual difference in male bodies and female bodies and young boys.

are totally fine in terms of [: 00:06:00

I gotta get the wiggles out. They gotta get the wiggles out, but most schooling isn't set up for that. Instead, it's sit still. And if you can't sit still, something's wrong with you. You have a DHD, you have a problem. And so what we're actually teaching boys, there is whatever's happening in your body. It's not important, override it with your head.

It's more important that you sit still than on or what's happening in your body. And then we become teenagers and we get into the peer space. Our bodies are developing at different times, locker rooms, all of that kind of

Ali Kessler: hormones.

Jason Lange: Hormones again, very quickly, learn the lesson. If I don't wanna be bullied or ostracized, don't give anyone any ammo that might mark me as a target.

So keep it all inside. And then we get out into the workforce. And what are we rewarded for in our culture, both men and women, unfortunately. Oh, he works 60, 70, 80 hours a week. He's such a hard worker. He is destroying our bodies in the process, and in the work I do with guys, right? Emotion always starts as physical sensation.

And so if we're [: 00:07:00

So what do most men do when they have an uncomfortable feeling inside? We turn to something outside of us to try to change it. Alcohol, weed, booze porn, masturbation, you name it. These are the things, or even overworking, you know, a very common one for guys, but it doesn't actually deal with what's going on underneath some

Ali Kessler: bandaid.

Jason Lange: Exactly. The,

Ali Kessler: do you think that's why a lot of cheating happens? I mean, I know it goes both ways, because Sure.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I would say cheating often comes down to that, like, I'm feeling something inside and I don't know how to deal with it, and no one taught me how to communicate. What am I feeling inside?

enging for a lot of guys, as [: 00:08:00

It's not necessarily conscious, but it draws a very strong line oftentimes. Right. But just last piece I'll say about the cost. Particularly of the emotional piece, and this does show up in our capacity to be present and actually here in the room with our kids, with our spouses is when we're not feeling our emotions the way we do that.

So Right. If you imagine that five-year-old boy and he's quite sad or about something, and maybe crying, and if I walk up to him and I'm like, stop crying. How he does that is, well, holds breath stops breathing and his body tightens up. So we actually tighten up to hold emotional content inside of ourselves, and these little accumulations build up over time.

we end up using a tremendous [: 00:09:00

Ali Kessler: So how do you get a man to sort of break that cycle, to make those changes, but not only make the changes to recognize that maybe because I know even in my personal relationships, you know the man who probably doesn't think that there's anything wrong.

Jason Lange: For the challenges for a lot of guys is it does take a crisis of some kind, some kind of pain. Okay. Right. So their spouse is like, I can't do this anymore. I'm leaving. They have some kind of sickness or autoimmune disorder come up, they lose a job. These tend to be the things, unfortunately, that it really often takes for men to wake up and say, what is going on?

don't know how to manage my [: 00:10:00

Their partner says, this just is not working for me. Our relationship is totally offline. I don't feel connected to you. You're not here for the kids, or if you are, you're too reactive. You get explosive, you know, whatever it might be. There's a whole range. But it's that kind of feedback that often really gets a man to say, Hey, okay, I gotta do something different here.

Or one other thing I'll say is, particularly as kids start to get a little bit older, one thing I do see. Sometimes having men also reach out and get help is they see their children starting to enact the very behaviors. They don't liken themselves like, oh my, he's becoming just like me. Me, she's becoming just like me.

And low and behold, they're like, and it's not always been that great to be me, so I don't want them to do that same stuff I did. Right. In one of the most powerful ways I think as a

is to all, to put your best [: 00:11:00

Jason Lange: Exactly. And one of the ways we can start to shift that then that I do work with men on is one of the greatest gifts you can give to your children is to heal yourself and to teach your kids that it's okay to ask for help.

And sometimes we all need to keep growing in life and that often will have an impact 'because then the problem is not that there's issues or things don't always work, it's that, oh, but it's all workable if we're willing to get help and support. And I tell my guys, one of the greatest gifts you can give your children is for them to see.

A happy, energized, relaxed father who is in their life and enjoying it. And so it's not selfish to take some time to get support for yourself because that's what allows you to show up in those ways.

Ali Kessler: A lot of men, I feel like getting maybe therapy or support like sort of as a weakness, like yes, I don't, I don't wanna talk to anyone.

as. Self-help and bettering [: 00:12:00

Speaker 4: What we all

Ali Kessler: need help. This is men. This is just a. Person thing.

It's not men or women. Right.

Jason Lange: Totally. What tends to, I have found, engage a lot of men is when we reframe it as, it's not that there's something broken, right? With you, it's, you need some training. Like it's that simple. You have not been taught certain skills you need. To thrive in modern families and relationships.

You know, for a lot of us, our parents and generations before, for the father, the deal was if you were providing, literally, if you were bringing in money and creating some safety and security, that was kind of enough, right? That was like, that was enough. That doesn't fly anymore. That is not enough anymore.

act, get lost in my emotions [: 00:13:00

So I talk to 'em about training and frankly, effectiveness. You wanna make more money, you wanna have better sex, you want your kids to still talk to you when they're in their twenties. You gotta do this work. Like it's just that simple and you will. All those things come true. People will trust you more, you'll feel more regulated in your nervous system, and you'll have a much stronger capacity for communication and you will live longer.

So you know, in the bedrock, like you, you mentioned in the beginning of all the work I do is get connected to other men and stop isolating and holding it all inside. We are social creatures, and men are no different, and we have a whole hormonal system. Polyvagal system that is set up so connection teaches our bodies to downshift and feel safe, and the stats are just pretty brutal when it comes to isolation and loneliness.

And this kind of [: 00:14:00

And the most potent thing I say to most men that kind of sometimes wakes 'em up. Is, I don't care how tough and strong you think you are, at some point in your life as a man, you will not be able to just push through with sheer force. It could be old age, it could be illness, it could be accident.

y for many guys. I work with [: 00:15:00

I need it. Right. That is such a stretch for so many guys.

Ali Kessler: Yeah, for sure. And a lot of what you're saying even just happens in my life. I had a severe tragedy happen. My 4-year-old son was murdered. And my partner had to sort of take that on. You know, I gave him an out when it happened.

We were together a year and a half at that time. I said, this is your chance to walk away. And he didn't. He's like, I'm not going anywhere. And now, we've been together almost six years and I'm sure that he struggles in ways that I don't know, because one, I'm not a man. Two, I'm not outside of the picture because it was my child. So I see things a little differently and someone going through that sort of trauma probably bottles it all in up inside, doesn't wanna talk about it. He feels like he wants to be strong and be the rock for the other person.

it's okay. To open up, it's [: 00:16:00

Jason Lange: Sure. Oftentimes it has to start as an invitation, right?

It just that it's not that you have to do this, but hey, check out what's possible here. In terms of just a few shifts in how we relate and how we experience our emotional selves in, again, kind of how I tie it together is it actually allows you to be more grounded. And more present when you are paying attention to your inner experience and giving it the support and nourishment it needs and learning to not hold it all alone.

Guys, often like analogies, and I use some engineering here in terms of just circuits. If you think about like when I was growing up, right? The old string of Christmas lights, if one bulb went out, the whole string of lights didn't work. And that's what a lot of modern men fall into. And I gotta always be tough and be the provider.

one holding it all together. [: 00:17:00

That's it, right? Sometimes we all need to help support for the structure, help. Support for the structure. Sometimes we need to put the oxygen mask on ourselves first, and so what I tell people is you will become stronger and it even goes beyond just resilience. This idea, I can survive anything in what I've seen and experienced in my own life, is it moves it to this state of what we call anti fragility, where the challenges actually.

d, suddenly I have even more [: 00:18:00

A lot of times for guys that says, yeah, you can hold all you want. You can be the tough anchor, but are you dying inside? Like literally, where is your life force, right? If it's all serious, braced gripp. You cannot survive like that. So getting support and connection, learning to work with our emotions, it makes us more powerful and it allows life force, quite frankly to come back to us.

Ali Kessler: Right now you've spoken about the loneliness epidemic among men. Yeah. How does isolation impact family systems? And the next generation.

hole piece that I'm avoiding [: 00:19:00

Something they're doing. And the really challenging thing with a lot of guys I work with is, it's not that they don't even have male friends, but they might go out and spend a whole day with their buddies come home. Their buddies don't even know their wife's about to leave them, right? Because it's like, I can't talk about that.

They know my wife, they know their friends. So they keep it all inside. So again, what it does to men is it keeps everything inside and we clench. We clench up our bodies. We get rigid, we get reactive in when we're not feeling that emotional content inside us, most of us have probably, experienced in some capacity in a man.

someone cuts me off in line, [: 00:20:00

I totally collapse into my shame. The, and these things, tank men. And so learning to handle them. Again, it, it's very simple. It makes us more available and more present in our lives, and we can actually handle more. This is the paradox. They think, oh, if I avoid it, I'll be tougher. No. When you go straight to it, when you handle it, when you process it, when you metabolize it.

That's what actually allows you to have more energy and presence in your life. 'cause then you're not wasting it all, trying to avoid this emotional content or fear or anger, shame, whatever it might be. Grief.

Ali Kessler: So what are some like early signs or signs that a man might be struggling and not expressing it? What can a woman maybe look for?

isolating. Okay. If he keeps [: 00:21:00

He does this, and a lot of times men will be loathed to admit it, but they get the pattern. They're like, oh my God, this is the moment I'm gonna walk away from her. And I know exactly where this goes. We're not gonna talk to each other for a day and a half. It's gonna feel icy cold in the house. And at some 0.1 of us is just gonna get so tired of it.

We'll like bridge the gap or something. But it's, it's when we see these patterns. Over and over. We know we don't want to do them, and yet we keep doing them. That is a huge red flag in terms of a man needs some help, right? He keeps going down the same cycle over and over and over again and you know, is he depressed?

hat are often the downstream [: 00:22:00

You know, particularly for feminine partners with a with a man, often the challenge is I feel like I am feeling him more than he feels himself, and that doesn't feel safe, right? I walk into the room and I'm like, are you okay? You seem a little, no, I'm fine. That's a red flag, right? When a man can't even be aware of his own inner state or what's happening in his body, it means he just needs some help.

Not broken. There's nothing wrong with him. Like I said, just means he needs likely some training and some capacity to just have a space to bring his burden. Right. That's the thing. A lot of guys, I don't want to be a burden to anyone else. I don't wanna call up my buddy 'cause I'm feeling sad. I don't want to ask you as my partner that.

poison for men. So we wanna [: 00:23:00

Ali Kessler: Okay. So piggybacking onto that, a lot of our listeners are involved in domestic violence and family court spaces.

We see the fallout of men not having emotional tools or support. How can men's groups create a safer, more accountable path for healing and growth?

Jason Lange: Yeah, so. One of the great gifts of men's groups. I say is they help us learn to slow down and connect to our direct felt body experience. So what a good men's group will do is it will actually help you become aware of what's happening in your body and your heart.

And until you have that awareness and language for it, you have very little control. So most men walk through the world being had by their emotions, meaning their emotion takes over and it runs them versus. A men's group is one of the key places where you can learn to build the capacity to not be had by your emotions, but have them.

I have anger right now. I'm [: 00:24:00

You can no longer hold yourself, other men can hold you right where you're allowed to fall apart.

Ali Kessler: So it is a group setting, not hold it all together.

Jason Lange: It is a group setting, and not only do you have a place to go when you need support, but you have a place full of men who know you, know your patterns, know your story, and know what you want in life, and are going to lovingly hold you accountable.

hose two things can be quite [: 00:25:00

The first hand embodied experience that rewrites their story about what emotions are when you're present with another man and you see him a, for some guys fully connected to his anger, fully in touch with where he's angry in his life, but he feels completely safe, that can transform a man's life. I didn't even know that was possible.

All I ever had modeled for me was unconscious aggression, the way you just stood there and expressed that cleanly didn't feel dangerous. Wow. Now I have a path. Or same thing with something like grief or shame. We see a man allow himself to feel the heartbreak of his life in that moment and not totally get knocked offline by it.

And he takes a deep breath. [: 00:26:00

Seeing him feel at that depth, wow, that guy's actually really strong. I don't know if I could do that. Right. And it starts to kind of spread through the group in terms of what is possible and what real strength looks like, which is really our capacity as men to be present fully. Whatever's actually happening inside ourselves and our lives and in a group, we get to see that firsthand

Ali Kessler: right now, do you think like maybe some of men's avoidance or patterns that they have as adults maybe stem from like childhood or inner wounds that maybe they don't even know about? You know, and it could be something really small, but just a lot of patterns that we go through in life develop as children or stem from children.

tart to see this interesting [: 00:27:00

The way I actually treat myself, I would never treat another man like that or another person like that. Where does that come from? And lo and behold, that almost always traces back to our, our childhoods, our early attachment wounding, and whether it's a father, a brother, a mother, whether it's friends in that adolescent age.

The challenge with men's group, for some guys is the greatest wounding they received was actually from other men who. Made fun of them for emoting or being sh vulnerability or being playful or whatever it is. So these patterns they hold strong in what often gets very quickly surfaced in, in men's group's Eye lead, is that right?

life. It looks different for [: 00:28:00

So it's like we put on the iron suit and it was great when we were kids, but now we're adults and we're like, why don't I feel connected to anyone and why doesn't my connect, I can't move? Yeah. And literally I can't move. I can't breathe. I feel like I'm dying. And so a group is one of the places where we get to delicately, delicately unwind that of, Hey, it's not that you know this stuff was bad, it's you learned it at a time in your life where you needed it.

But guess what? You don't need it now. You are not a five-year-old boy who has no power over his life. You're not gonna be stuck. You can make choices. And we get to start to update those narratives and learn to. To hold and take care of our, our inner children. So becoming aware of those patterns is incredibly important and useful.

mate relationship, the thing [: 00:29:00

You do? And he's like, what do you mean? Well, you just da da da. Oh wow. Light bulb. Now I can see it. 'cause that's the beauty of, you know, groups in particular is, you know, I mentioned shadow work. This idea that shadow is really just the parts of ourselves that were so wounded. We kind of buried 'em underground and then we created whole ways of being.

To hopefully never have to feel that way again. Right. And

Ali Kessler: many, and lo and behold, many men don't even know that they have a shadow or things that are, they're like, no, I'm trying a great child, a childhood. 'cause yeah,

Jason Lange: you, you know, that is one of the phrases. Now I can tell you when I hear a man say, I had a pretty good childhood.

it doesn't mean your parents [: 00:30:00

And the whole thing with shadow is you're like, Hey Jason, you got a big shadow there. And I'm like, what do you mean? It looks fine to me, but you can see it, no problem. Right? That's the whole gift of these kind of relationships and why so many men turns out what I have found when we get under the surface, they are actually longing for longing for the care of other men who will do what I call the spinach in the teeth moment of, Hey dude, you realize you got a big piece of spinach in your teeth.

You've been walking around with every day, all day, and at first it's like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. Then there's, why didn't anyone else tell me? You at least love me enough to tell me thank you, and suddenly I actually trust you more. And that kinda loving confrontation as, or as Terry Real calls it, CAREfrontation.

are actually looking out for [: 00:31:00

Ali Kessler: In a friend group, you know, a guy would be out with his friends having a beer and he, maybe he had spinach in his teeth.

He'd joke about it and be like, get the fucking thing outta your mouth or you know, rather than be, yeah, yeah. Totally. Support. Been like, Hey, just so you know, you're not,

Jason Lange: yeah. You do this thing, right? You do this thing. Or you told me, you didn't want to get into this kind of relationship again.

Right. The last six weeks you've been coming in, you've been checking in. It sounds like you're getting into that kind of relationship again. Right, right. Like, to just be really frank, like, what's going on here? Are you aware of it? Is it real? And we need that as men, the feeling that we're being tracked.

By other people who care about us is so transformational for guys. 'cause suddenly it's, oh, I don't have to figure it all out by myself. I have allies. It's that simple. I have allies, right? I'm part of a team now. When we're part of a team, we can often get more done of the things we want to.

Ali Kessler: And sometimes, what you said before, how, you know, men don't even realize, you know, they had a, a great childhood.

That's a red [: 00:32:00

Well, they're not gonna, they're not gonna miss it as an adult because they never had it.

Jason Lange: That's, it's so true. I was just leading a retreat for men this weekend, and it's one of the most wild things I see is when men realize how much they weren't even aware of how much they were craving love from the masculine.

Which is a very different energy than we can get from women and partners in the feminine. Yeah. But most guys have never experienced it, so they don't know what it looks like. So instead they try to get. All of that met from their romantic partner, and it just doesn't work. It's a different kind of energy.

ip and to be able to show up [: 00:33:00

Different men have very different experiences and a man will be talking about his relationship. Let's say I've seen this time and time again and another guy's jaw will be on the floor. Like, what do you mean? You like had a disagreement and you guys talked about it and you got through it, or what do you mean?

You like showed up and she had already handled the so and so, you know. It's like the frog in the boiling pot thing. So many guys get stuck in this one vibration. That's all they know and they don't even know what is possible. Let's say in a healthy relationship where both partners are taking responsibility for their own wounding, getting support, getting connection, and create a reciprocal relationship where I put energy in and I get energy back, that blows the mind out of so many guys I know whose relationships.

the source of their deepest [: 00:34:00

They're like, what? I didn't even know that was possible. How do I get that? And it again, it kind of kickstarts a whole growth journey of how do you change your current relationship or sometimes how do you have to change your relationship.

Ali Kessler: Now what would you say the differences are between, let's say, a group versus therapy with a psychologist or, or whatnot?

Jason Lange: Yeah, totally. I think they're extremely complimentary, but they are different. So a therapeutic relationship. What I often see and have experienced is. It's a very safe way to start to repair our attachment wounding. 'cause the whole point of working with a therapist or even a coach to some extent is what I call the direction of attunement.

g, my relationship's falling [: 00:35:00

Care about me, et cetera, and it's just a one-on-one thing and it often can reinvigorate and change that kind of attachment. Wounding a group is different 'cause it is a peer relationship. It's about peer-to-peer relationships, meaning there's times where I'm getting support from you, but also times where I'm giving you.

Support and it tends to just come at things from a different angle. In a good men's group, the kind I'm really passionate about helping men start is one where they actually own the group, right? Leadership rotates. Every man takes a little responsibility for making it happen. So there's both a giving and receiving which can heal these peer relationships in a different way.

en I work with, like I said, [: 00:36:00

But over time, with their right agreements and safety, they get to rewrite that script and like, wow, I actually feel totally safe here in a way I've never felt with a group of men before. And. There's also just what I call the accelerated learning in a sense of when you have more than one person, everybody's dealing with different things and you just get exposed to so many different things so fast when some of my groups, right guys, guys at the end of the meeting are like, it wasn't even.

cessarily get that in just a [: 00:37:00

So in a lot of ways, you know, we get to do some very deep healing with our therapy and one-on-one, then we get to kind of bring that. Two, a group where we get to practice these different tools, practice how we're showing up, practice asking for support, and building these safe peer connections.

Ali Kessler: Got it. Now, are there ever like couples groups where men and women can talk freely and sort of learn from each other?

Jason Lange: Yeah. My wife and I. Do these kinds of things for couples. 'cause you can learn a lot about what's going on in the exact same ways. The truth of it is, I say, is we all need all of it. So ideally for a relationship to really kind of thrive, what I have seen is in the case of heterosexual relationships, which I mostly work with, the man needs to be getting support from other men and taking responsibility, whether through a therapist or whatever, to work his own wounding.

be taking responsibility for [: 00:38:00

And again, where we just get to see, the biggest change I often see in any kind of group, whether it's men's group or a couple's group, is that light bulb moment where it's like, ah, I thought we were the only ones messed up like this. Turns out they're struggling with it too, and that in itself is often so relaxing that're not uniquely broken or doomed.

These are challenges we, we all, couples, all worked with. Couple exactly

Ali Kessler: the same issue.

Jason Lange: Exactly, and oftentimes they'll have worked through some of them and then can become allies of like, oh yeah, when our son was born, here's how we handled the dishes. And you're like, that was about to destroy our relationship.

Right, right. Thank you. That's a incredible tip. Now we can use those kind of pieces, get to get exchanged in groups, whether it's a co-ed couples group or a men's group. These things really, really matter.

Ali Kessler: For [: 00:39:00

Jason Lange: It's so relieving and relaxing. Yeah. And then, the other thing, whether it's, again, couples or I see it a lot in men's groups, particularly men who are navigating divorce or their family's changing pace to get connected to a man who's on the other side of it. Yeah, I did it like I left my partner, it wasn't working or it was so hard.

I felt like I would never recover when she left me and I did it. I'm on the other side of it and my life's actually good. My kids still love me. I actually have a great relationship co-parenting with, and sometimes, quite frankly, a better relationship with my ex now that we're just co-parents and all the intimacy isn't having to get in the way of that, and guys are like, wow.

urced properly and your kids [: 00:40:00

And again, that kind of support is so useful for guys who again, used to just keeping it all inside. I can't ask for help, I gotta figure it out.

Ali Kessler: Yep. Now. This is a two part question, but I guess, what advice would you give a man listening today who wants to become emotionally safer partners or fathers? And then two, for the women listening, how could they encourage the men in their lives to seek help or join a group without sounding like criticism or blame?

Jason Lange: Yeah, totally. For the emotional piece, it's, you know, you need training. Right. Like it's just that simple, right? It will not fix itself. Most men who are like that, experienced a parent who were like that. Yeah. And know what it's like to be around someone who can't regulate their nervous system. And again, you know, sometimes it kicks in that kind of protector vibe for.

Fathers in particular have, [: 00:41:00

Guess what? They're gonna thrive. They're gonna love that. Ian. I think it's one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids as parents, is just teaching them what's going on in their bodies and how to work with it. And guess what? We can't teach 'em that if we don't know what's going on in our bodies and how to work with it.

So it's very powerful skill building and capacity there that you just wanna do as men. Life gets better on the other side. And again, one of the. Real ways we'll often see it is spouses, children, coworkers. They will trust you more. They will trust you more the more that they can feel you are able to be with and contain your own emotional experience.

it doesn't, it's not that we [: 00:42:00

And then in terms of spouses, I think, one thing that I often see men are just dying for, dying for is appreciation. Even if they're failing. Sure. So they might be trying to do something or working really hard and then it's not working. And one way to, uh, the masculine heart is, I see how hard you're trying.

I just, I want you to know, I really see how hard you're trying and, um. I really wanna honor you for that. And I'm realizing right as your spouse or partner, I think there's certain things I can't give you that you deserve because I just don't know what the experience is like. And so, you know, I had a thought like, I wonder what it'd be like for you to, to get resourced by some other men who could really get how hard it is for you to be trying to hold this family together.

er: You needed to go talk to [: 00:43:00

Jason Lange: Like, so, you know, go talk to some. So, you know, have you ever thought about, I've heard about these things called men's groups and it's not that things are broken, it's just I want you to feel even better and I'm realizing it very broke. I can't always do that for you.

Yeah. I like, I. I can't always do that for you, and I want you to thrive, right? I wanna be able to show up for you, and I want you to be able to show up for me. And I'm realizing, while I, you know, again, while I think I know how much burden you're holding or stress you're under, it's just different.

'cause I'm different. So I would love for you to find some guys who really fucking get it. Who really get how hard it is. And I feel like that would make our relationship even stronger. You know? So lots of ways to kind of introduce it, but

Ali Kessler: yeah, definitely. I used to study like attachment styles, like the avoidant and the anxious heart and all that.

Yeah. And I know trying to get that avoidant or whatever on your, or both of you on the same level is, is very difficult. One's always running, the other's always chasing, but it can happen. Transformations can happen

One of the sweetest ways my [: 00:44:00

I was listening to this podcast and I heard it, you could listen to it, but what's really underneath that for me, honey, is I want even more of. I want even more of you. The best of you. You,

Ali Kessler: yeah.

Jason Lange: Yeah. I want even more of you. It's not that you're broken, it's just I want more and I want you to be even more resourced to be able to bring it to me.

Like I, I just, I want you, I'm in. Right. And I want us both to be thriving. And then, you know, if you compare that with, and here's how I'm realizing I could probably get some more support and I'm real. If we both got more support, just think of what's possible for us.

Ali Kessler: Sure. Now, what's one daily practice?

You know, men can, use to stay grounded and emotionally connected. What's one thing that they can do just at any moment?

t of us in our culture these [: 00:45:00

My breathing into my belly is my front. Soft and relaxed can completely change things. It is in the work I do with men. When I talk about , when we mentioned embodiment, you can become a leader. In your relationship, in your family, in your job, just by how you breathe. You can completely change the state of a room just by how you breathe, but you gotta be conscious of it and you gotta actually take the time to do it.

And if you do that. Even just a couple minutes a day, you can completely down yourself. Anxiety, that's for sure. Yep. Get outta your head, get more into your body. Feel more relaxed and grounded. And like we talked about, the more relaxed and grounded you are as a man, the more relaxed and grounded your family system, your partnership, et cetera, are often gonna be

Ali Kessler: for sure.

[: 00:46:00

Jason Lange: Sure. Yeah. Easiest way to keep up with me is @ my website, evolutionary.men, so it's not.com, but it's Dot Men. And on there I have my own podcast where I kind of talk about all these kinds of stuff, particularly talk a lot about men's groups, why they're useful, that, that kind of practicality.

And then, yeah, I work with men, so I work with men one-on-one. But my sweet spot, what I really love is working with men in groups. So I lead all kinds of men's groups. Some of them are programs around dating and relationships and communication. Some are around that deep inner healing and shadow work.

t resourced as a man and you [: 00:47:00

And even if you don't work with me. You can hit the contact form on my site. I'm very well networked in the men's work world. Now if you're like, I'm trying to find a group, here's where I live. I can point you, I can give you the tips for what to look for and who to look for, even if you're not working with me.

'cause you know, like you said, my mission is every man should be in a men's group. And I feel like in particularly healthy men get in and create healthy relationships, which then can create healthy families and healthy children. And that's how we. That's how we evolve this whole thing towards more goodness, truth, and beauty.

Ali Kessler: Do you do one-on-one or is it solely group?

Jason Lange: I do, yeah, I'll do, I'll do one-on-one coaching work. Sometimes with guys it's a little bit too big of a jump to go right into a group, and so they wanna build a little rapport, get a little vibe, and then I'll be like, great. And then with your

Ali Kessler: groups, do you have to like.

Sort of graduate, like you said, you do some deeper ones. Do you start with like a lighthearted one and then move to a deeper one? Or could you just jump in and

a live retreat and really go [: 00:48:00

Where are your, retreats at. Throughout the country a lot. Country, country, Northern California. We have some in Texas next year, and some of the stuff I do is just virtual as well, which does tend to be okay. Particularly useful. I was gonna, if you, you're, I ask are

Ali Kessler: the, the groups virtually

Jason Lange: most of my groups are virtual right now. I do have some live retreats and if you're wanting to start a local group, I can help you do that. Particularly for Busy Fathers. Yeah. What I found is, in that parenting phase, it's actually quite useful to be able to do a meeting from home, go upstairs, finish dinner, whatever that might be. So a lot of guys like that.

th, your relationships, your [: 00:49:00

The thing is you just gotta reach out. As a man, right? Yeah. You gotta take that risk at some point and say, Hey, I'm trying to do something different. Think I need a little training. Can you help? And we'll help.

Ali Kessler: Awesome, awesome. Well, I'll put all of your contact info in the show notes and I really thank you so much for this honest and hopeful conversation because what you've shared remind us that Men's healing is family healing, and that when men learn to express, connect, and grow, their children benefit most of all.

So if you're listening and you're a man who's been silently struggling, or if you're, you love someone who is, please visit evolutionary. But men to explore Jason's men's groups and programs, support and connection are available, and that's where change truly begins. So thank you so much and as always, thank you for joining me on Grey Minds Think Alike. All right, I'll talk soon. I'm sure we can. Awesome. Thank you so much. Continue this down the road.

pport you and your audience. [: 00:50:00

Ali Kessler: Sounds good. Bye Jason. Okay.